Growing up with a mother living with schizophrenia, Laura's childhood was shaped by trauma, unpredictability and responsibilities far beyond her years. Laura speaks with Patty Kikos about the emotional complexity of caring for someone who has also caused deep pain, exploring people-pleasing, guilt, boundaries and the reality that love, resentment and compassion can exist at the same time. She also reflects on protecting her own wellbeing, building a life beyond caring, and why relationships, and caring itself, are rarely black and white.
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Disclaimer: The views, language, experiences and opinions shared by guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of Mental Health Carers NSW (MHCN) as an organisation.
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Jonathan
MHCN acknowledges the Traditional Custodians of Country and pays respect to elder’s past, present and emerging. We are the peak body for mental health carers in New South Wales, and we advocate for carers rights and systemic reform.
Jonathan
Caring Between Minds. Mental Health Advocacy in Action.
Patty
This episode discusses trauma, caring and lived experiences. Please listen at your own pace and reach out to support services if you need to.
Laura
Life, relationships and people, in my opinion, are not black and white. So mum was emotionally and physically abusive and I did get the brunt of that. I did know she was unwell, but how much do you excuse because someone is not well? And how much of it is because someone is unwell if any at all?
And mum never believed that she had a mental health condition and that she might have needed help and that she might have dated some medication. S he did push her friends and family away, and then they distanced themselves because she wouldn't get any help.
So currently I am the only one who can will help. And to be honest, I don't really want to after everything that we dealt with growing up. But I do worry if I don't step in, about something happening to her.
Patty
Laura is the kind of person who got rid of her clothes, so she could fit more books in her suitcase when moving home from Canada, and she's now studying her fifth qualification. She's a die-hard soccer player competing across multiple leagues, a thrift store treasure hunter, a mentor to young girls in football, and someone who treats Eurovision like the geopolitical masterclass, it truly is.
And you know what? She's also an introvert. She's someone who recharges alone and guards her freedom fiercely. Laura has been a mental health carer for her mum, who lives with schizophrenia, since she was a child. Her story isn't neat or sentimental. It's layered, complex and honest, because love and distance can exist at the same time, and that's something we don't talk about enough. I'm Patty Kikos, and this is a conversation about caring, that isn't black and white. It's every shade of grey in between. Lean in folks. You're going to want to meet Laura Knight
Laura
I realised the actual depth of it now and when I was in my 20s, but at the time, I was conscious that our childhood was different. So, when mum is sitting in the corner laughing and talking to no one, your kind of do figure out that something isn't quite right. I'd be too embarrassed to invite my friends over as well, because sometimes mum would say some things to them that didn't make sense or would yell at me or them.
I'm aware that this isn't the case for a lot of people's experience, but this has been my experience as a child.
Patty
You've said that your mom's schizophrenia started with postnatal depression. How did mental illness shape the atmosphere in your home when you were growing up? You said that she'd sometimes yell at you or even your friends.
Laura
So, mum's been quite unwell in my experience, ever since I was born. Mum would take medication and then she would stop because she didn't believe that she needed it. We did have a lot of outside help and support at the time, but it didn't seem to help.
Patty
Was that in the form of carers coming to your house?
Laura
Yeah, and the mental health team and other organisations that would come and they'd send a worker out to do things with us and mum. So that kind of support and help and family members at the time, but I don't have any fond memories with mum because she couldn't or she wouldn't do the usual ‘mum things’ like drives to school make arvo tea, or just even hang out with us. Instead, it was very chaotic, unpredictable and even violent at times.
Patty
Do you have any fond memories of your childhood?
Laura
I do have a lot of fun memories growing up. My dad worked hard to make it fun and special for me and my brother, so he was always tinkering away in the garage building things for me or my brother, like a billy cart or really terrible skateboard that was awful. Bless. Or he'd make me, and my friends, funny plates of food, if I had parties. Or he just randomly had random things around the house like spiders and cardboard cut-out faces it would scare me and my brother, that kind of thing.
Patty
Real spiders or fake spiders? (both laugh)
Laura
Well fake spiders, but a memory is coming back now where he’d find dead huntsmen around the house because we grew in the country and we would hide them around the house. So sometimes one would appear in my bed, but it was not alive.
Patty
Sounds like you built your resilience. As the eldest child, you probably stepped into responsibilities very early, helping your dad, possibly even looking after your brother. How did that shape who you became as a person?
Laura
So, my dad and my brother and I have a really good relationship, which is nice and I'm very thankful for. So, growing up, if dad wasn't home, I would forge my brother’s permission slips. I also taught my brother how to ride his first bike.
Patty
Whose signature you would use to forge your mum or your dad’s? (both laugh)
Laura
Mum's. Because both our names start with L. She had an easy signature to forge as well. And even though it wasn’t legal, my brother got his L’s, (license) and I was on my P’s at the time. We’d get in the family car, and I'd taken down the dirt track near a house and teach him how to drive a manual.
Which was a test of my patience. Definitely. But, I mean, I'm also a type A kind of girl. So, no doubt my childhood would have contributed to the control freak I’ve become. And sometimes I do wonder what kind of person I’d be now, if I didn't have this sort of experience with mum growing up.
Patty
Is that label something that you would still identify with being a control freak or someone that is very comfortable being in control?
Laura
I am definitely a control freak. It is one of the ways I would describe myself and how I'd calm myself down when I do get into a bit of a heightened state of anxiety.
Patty
Random question, do you still remember how to drive a manual?
Laura
I still drive a manual, and I only drive manual cars because I don't want to lose the skills. I'm also pretty sure that this is one of the things that clinched the deal when I started dating my partner who was a massive car fanatic.
Patty
You shared something really powerful. You've said that caring relationships aren't always built on closeness or admiration. I guess sometimes they could be cautionary tales. Can you talk about the shades of grey that exists in your relationship with your mum?
Laura
Life, relationships and people, in my opinion are not black and white. So mum was emotionally and physically abusive, and I did get the brunt of that. I did know she was unwell, but how much do you excuse because someone is unwell? And how much of it is because someone is unwell, if any at all? And mum never believed that she had a mental health condition and that she might have needed help, and that she might have needed some medication.
She did push her friends and family away, and then they distanced themselves because she wouldn't get any help. So currently I am the only one who can will help. And to be honest, I don't really want to. After everything that we dealt with growing up. But I do worry if I don't step in, about something happening to her.
Patty
Is that also because had you not offered some help, you wouldn't be able to forgive yourself if something did happen to her. Is that what that comes down to?
Laura
Potentially. I don't know if I'd be able to forgive myself, I am not sure. But yes, being the only person involved, it sort of just feels like the thin line between something happening and something not happening sometimes.
Patty
I can understand that. Have you had times where you and your mum were estranged?
Laura
So there was a number of years where I'd only talk to her on the phone once a month, or visit a handful of times a year.
Patty
So that sounds like a very clear boundary.
Laura
Yes, yes, because she does go through phases where she rings a lot like about 20 times in one day and at odd hours through the nighttime. So, I do have to put those boundaries in place. In the last few years, I have been more actively involved in her care, because when she transitioned from the Mental Health Team to the Older Persons Mental Health Team, they contacted my dad as somebody to be involved, because there was nobody involved ,and they'd already been separated for 13 years.
So, they then rang me. They got my number off of mum, and I wanted to be a bit more involved because I had no idea what was going on with her and her care. Mum’s memory isn’t good either. So, I’m fairly sure she does have dementia, so I can't even get any information out of her if I would ask her questions directly. So, I have that direct contact now with people involved in her past.
Patty
Is her loss of memory something that's recent, or has that always been very prevalent in her disposition?
Laura
In the last ten years or so? Definitely. It's been a long time that her memory has not being great. She can remember things like birthdays or really clear experiences from when she was younger or when she was an older adult, maybe in her 30s and 40s. But anything recently that's happened, she can't seem to remember any of that, or if anything is outside her usual routine. The routine is good but if there's something that happens and it throws things into chaos, then she can't quite remember what's going on.
Patty
Many people imagine caring is an act of love, but your experience includes trauma and abuse. What has it been like navigating that complexity? And what I mean by that is caring for someone that you don't necessarily feel emotionally safe with.
Laura
It is hard. I love her because ‘you have to’, which I put in the sort of quotations, not necessarily because I ‘do’. I essentially just want her to be safe. So, then once that's done, maybe I could back away from this situation a bit more. Despite having a traumatic and a chaotic childhood, I am aware that she is unwell. It doesn't excuse some of the things that she's done or some of the experiences we've had growing up, however.
Patty
No, the two opposite things can always be true. That she's vulnerable and she needs help, but also that you're still healing from a lot of the trauma she inflicted, right?
Laura
Yeah. And that's the shades of grey.
Patty
For sure for sure. How does this show up for you in terms of boundaries, now? So obviously over the years, there might have been perimeter breaches if you like. And over the years you might have had to update how close or how tight your boundaries were. What does it look like for you today?
Laura
So, I only actually just thought about this recently, but I probably won't tell her when, or if I get engaged. And I won't invite her to my wedding. I think it would cause mayhem. I don't want to be worrying if she's going to cause a scene at my wedding, it's meant to be a once in a lifetime celebration. One of the happiest days of someone's life. And I don't want to jeopardize that. But if I told her I was engaged and I didn't actually invite her to the wedding, I imagine she'd be pretty crushed. And I really don't want to do that to her.
Patty
And has your understanding of your mother's illness changed over time, especially now that you're older and you've chosen to be more involved in her care again?
Laura
Yes and no. So, when I was a kid, I knew she was unwell, but I was also a pubescent teenager. When you're a pubescent teenager, you're not really thinking rationally and logically at times. So, there were times when we would be yelling and screaming at each other. However, as time went on, I’d just sort of go along with what she wanted just to keep her from escalating, potentially getting violent because that was the safest. I learned that that was the safest way to actually get through that.
Patty
So, a lot of what you've described, from having that boundary of, ‘hey, this is an important event and it's important that it goes well, so you can't be part of it’, to reacting strongly and yelling back, to also going with the flow just because it was easier. Do you think that all of those acts, are just part of what we call self-preservation?
Laura
The self-preservation was the ‘fawning response’, which I believe has just recently, or recently ish been added to that ‘fight/ flight / fear’ as another category.
Patty
That's right. So ‘fawning’ is a stress or a trauma response where a person focuses on keeping others happy or calm in order to feel safe. And it can look like people pleasing, over apologising, maybe even putting other people's needs ahead of their own to avoid conflict or rejection. Just a little sidebar here. Have you ever been a people pleaser?
Laura (laughs loudly)
What you just said could not more accurately describe me. Yeah, absolutely.
Patty
Even now? Still now?
Laura
Less so than what I used to be. I try to be a bit more balanced, but yes, I definitely am a people pleaser. I don't want people to be mad at me or angry at me. I want people to like me and think I'm confident and wonderful and yes, very much a people pleaser.
Patty
Would you describe yourself as a retired or recovering people pleaser, maybe?
Laura
I think we're on the road to recovery, but I don't think we've hit that road yet. We have some work to do.
Patty
But looking back now, how do you feel?
Laura
So, I do actually wish I handled some of those moments with mum differently when she was agitated, when she was escalating. Because I know now that screaming and yelling back doesn't help. And it wouldn't have made her feel very safe or very good either. Especially she's experiencing hallucinations or delusions at that point in time.
Patty
Or hearing voices for sure. Were there any times in your life where you experienced anything similar to some of your mum's symptoms?
Laura
Yeah. So actually, I did go through an experience a few years back when the medication that I was taking for high blood pressure, because we have high blood pressure in our 30’s, apparently. It was causing me to hear and to see things that weren't actually there at nighttime when I go to sleep. That's when it happened. It did last a few weeks until I went back to the doctor, and he just set the medication to a lower dosage. It was actually a really scary experience and I knew it wasn't real or my reality, but it did give me the sort of insight to what mum might experience, just slightly.
Patty
That must have been so frightening.
Laura
Yes, yes, it was very frightening. But not all of what I saw was bad. Sometimes I used to see spiders, which I don't mind so much, but sometimes I'd see a rolling picture of hills, like one of those projectors where the images sort of keep coming. So that was nice. And I'd hear people talking, but it was just cafe chatter. So, some of it was it was fine and it was amusing sometimes laying in the bed at night and seeing spiders or hearing people in a cafe.
Patty
And there are some people that suffer from schizophrenia where not all voices are necessarily bad or negative. Some can be quite comforting. So, I imagine that would have really deepened your capacity for empathy as well.
Laura
Yeah, yeah, it did. Absolutely. It was a scary experience. But in a way I'm sort of glad that I had that experience.
Patty
For carers who might feel guilty because their relationship with the person that they care for is complex. It's complicated. It might even be messy. What would you want them to know?
Laura
Yeah. So great question I think trying to find meaningful relationships outside of your caring relationship and the person that you care for. Find an outlet for your thoughts and feelings. So, I find it very validating when I get to voice out loud how I'm feeling or just to write it down. And that could be seeing a friend or professional.
I have a journal that I write in, and when I write, it helps me to actually properly gather my thoughts and why I'm feeling how I'm feeling. Sometimes there is no right or wrong answer or feeling as well. So, I'd like carers to know that. Life is complicated. Humans are complex. It is that many shades of grey that we've spoken about. But also, I'm sure you're trying your best as a carer because sometimes you just want somebody to say, ‘hey, I see you and you're working damn hard’.
Patty
And one bad day or one bad experience doesn't define who you are as a carer, and it doesn't even necessarily define your relationship.
Laura
Exactly. Exactly. I think that's a really good point, Patty.
Patty
Outside of caring, you have such a rich life. Soccer. Books. Travel. Eurovision. Study. I mean, was it important for you to build a life that felt very separate from your caring roles?
Laura
Yes, yes, definitely. I don't want to have a miserable life. I do want to be happy. And I do the things that bring me joy. I read this somewhat recently. Life is too short not to fill your days with a little bit of magic. So, wear your nice jewellery, use your fancy plates that you never get out of the cupboard. Read the book wear your nice clothes. Don't wait for the right or the perfect time. My partner actually said this, but the perfect time is now.
Patty
I hear this a lot, and every time I do, it hits a different point for me as well. It's right. Why do I have to wait for this special occasion? Why can't I wear this nice dress on this Saturday night?
Laura
Get it out of the cupboard. Patty. Get it out.
Patty
Hey, don't threaten me with a good time (both laugh) Now, on a serious note, though, these are excellent suggestions. Is this the advice that you would give to other carers?
Laura
So, take care of yourself before you actually need the support. You need to actively schedule things into your calendar for your mental health and wellbeing, whether that's attending a support group or an exercise class or whatever is unique to you. You need to do it. You have to do it before you battery drains. I'd also say check Services Australia to see if there's any care payments that you're eligible for and can help financially.
Patty
That's an excellent point. That's an excellent point. I want to talk about your fabulous aptitude for scheduling, but I've got this thought that's just come into my mind because you have described yourself as both chatty and introverted. How do you protect your energy while you're balancing your caring responsibilities, plus your work, plus your study, plus the hobbies that you have which are quite involved?
Laura
Look, I do have to acknowledge that I'm very lucky. So, I do have a job where I get to work from home. I also have flexible working hours, so if I have to duck out for my caring duties, which I do have to do quite a bit, or dealing with my own chronic health condition, it works well for that. My partner is also very emotionally intelligent, so I'm very lucky in that way. He’s very supportive. But he knows that I need alone time. He can read me like a book, but I am also proactive myself in scheduling those things into my calendar in advance before I start becoming drained. Because if I don't, then it could lead to disaster. So, I will go to work from a café, that brings me joy. Or schedule in a facial or a massage, something like that.
Patty
You mentioned again, your scheduling. I'm going to get to that. But you also mentioned that you have a very flexible work schedule. Was that something that you negotiated with your place of work?
Laura
No. Actually, no. So, Covid happened. So, we all worked from the office and Covid happened and we all discovered we could work from home. So, we all started working from home. But we've always really had quite a flexible work environment, in general because we have a very supportive CEO, and we do work in Mental Health.
Patty
That's amazing. And I know that's not exactly everyone's experience. Okay, let's get to the hot topic because you are actually impeccable at scheduling your time. And I could really learn from you because I've got a bad habit of wanting to finish work first before I do something for me. It's almost like I respond better to the stick than the carrot, which is a bit of a worry, and then it's late and I'm tired. Or the place I wanted to go to has closed. So, what are your tips for well-meaning and very well intentioned carers like myself, who want to do it but don't quite get to actually administer that scheduling?
Laura
That is a great question. So, I actually had to learn a very big lesson a few years ago, when I got so overwhelmed and everything that was going on, putting everyone else first,and also working myself to the bone. I ended up having my own mental health breakdown, my own breakdown. I ended up quitting my job, which was a source of some of the stress, but thankfully I was able to return and to work something out with my boss and how I can address that stress moving forward.
It was the wake up call, and it was sort of scary and terrible. I was very scared, but I'm glad it happened, because it was the wake up call that I actually did need, to make sure that that never happens again. So, use it as a cautionary tale, so you don't have to go through what I did, because my mental health was pretty rock solid before that, in my opinion. So yeah, you don't want it to get to that point.
Patty
You spoke about how important freedom is to you. Even something simple like sitting in a cafe with a book. What does freedom mean to you after growing up in a caring environment that was a little bit volatile?
Laura
So, my freedom is probably the most important thing to me. That and making sure that I'm making my own choices and my own decisions to reflect what I actually want and what I'm actually feeling. Because as a child, I didn't actually get to make those decisions. I didn't have any control over those kinds of things.
Patty
That's right. Because even though you were the carer, you were also the child, and you didn't have agency.
Laura
Yeah, I couldn't leave. So, because of that experience of being tied to mum, I actually don't want children. Because you can leave the partner if things are going wrong. You can leave a parent, a friend, a sibling, whoever. But if you have a child, you can't leave a child. And I need that freedom.
Patty
Were you always clear about not wanting children?
Laura
I actually was. I think other people struggle with my decision because I always have people saying to me that I’ll change my mind or I'll get clucky one day. And I haven't actually changed my mind. And I never actually wavered much in that decision either. But I do think women experience more stigma than men about that decision.
Patty
For sure. For sure. Even in reference to the caring role, we're supposed to be caregivers. But that's the thing. What we want to do is show the world that we don't have to be caretakers, necessarily.
Laura
Yeah, absolutely. That's a good point, Patty.
Patty
Looking back, what support do you wish your younger self had when you were growing up in that caring role?
Laura
So, I wish I had more support from my school and from my teachers because if somebody just asked me if I was okay, or if they’d just checked with me if things were okay at home, or even connected me with some support, that would have been nice. It would have been something. It would be better than nothing. However, I am aware that I was in school nearly 20 years ago now, so a lot has changed and there is a bit of a bigger focus on the importance of mental health now.
Patty
Yeah, for sure. And how do you think your caring experience influenced the work that you do now, and maybe even the values that guide you professionally? Because you mentioned that you work in the Mental Health Care space?
Laura
Yes. So, when I moved to Canada when I was younger with my friends, we all had that sort of party experience. It was a really fun time. I’m really glad I did it, but you do kind of get over it, you know, after doing it back to back a year. So, I had a I had this magical epiphany. I came back from Canada, back to Australia, and I had this epiphany, that I wanted to do something more meaningful where I could help other people who had been through a similar thing to me, or I should say, I don't want them to go through a similar thing. (So other people in that sort of caring space).
So, I actually went to TAFE, and I did a student placement as part of my diploma, and I ended up at MHCN, and the CEO, Jonathan told me when I started, that I would've been a young carer, and I'm like, ‘oh he's got the wrong idea here, I’m not a young carer’. And I explicitly said to him, ‘no, no, you have the wrong idea. I was not a young carer, that was not me. I was just the child. You're mistaken’. But he was very right. I learned not very long after that, and here we are ten years later. Where has the time gone?
Patty
And to think you left the job. Luckily, you were able to go back! (both laugh)
Laura
I'm very lucky that I was able to go back. So, I'm very thankful. Thank you, Jonathan, and thank you MHCN
Patty
Yep. Mental Health Carers, New South Wales. Okay, let's do some Fast and Furious questions because I want people to get to know the other part of Laura outside of her caring role. Okay. Are you ready?
Laura (laughs)
Yes. I think so
Patty
Best thrift shop find ever. Go!
Laura
So, I found an eel leather handbag in Vinnies at Springwood that was made in Korea. It is absolutely beautiful. The craftsmanship is exquisite. However, for the record, I do want to say I do not support killing animals for garments and bags and clothes and things.
Patty
I understand. Dream future pet besides Peter, the gremlin cat who I have met.
Laura
I do want 100 more cats and dogs. Sshh! Don't tell my partner, but I really want a snake.
Patty
Woah! What kind?
Laura
Some kind of python. The really big, long like the coastal python. They’re stunning. And they have a good temperament.
Patty
They do. A friend of mine had one and we thought we lost her. And it turns out that she was fast asleep, coiled around the bun in my head. We forgot that she'd actually gone up there. And we were looking for hours before we realised. Did I ever tell you that?
Laura
Well, your hair is that wild hair Patty that I'm not surprised that there was a snake loose in your hair. (both laugh)
Patty
I aim to create a safe environments for all creatures.
Laura
That says a lot. If the snake is curled up asleep in your hair, that tells you a lot about the person you are.
Patty
You know, it's also my Chinese, astrology sign.
Laura
Ha! It's also my Chinese astrology sign.
Patty
You're the year the snake?
Laura
Yes.
Patty
Book you recommend to everyone?
Laura
A Thousand Splendid Suns by Khaled Hosseini. Get your tissues ready because you will bawl, but it's a beautifully, written story.
Patty
Have you read it more than once?
Laura
I've read it a few times now. I am due for maybe the third or the fourth read. It's a sort of book that you do keep coming back to you to read over and over again.
Patty
It's funny you say that. I saw it in my community library and I've taken it, and I try to be very vigilant about how many books I have, but it's on my list again. But I also remember how intense it was. So, I've got to be in the right frame of mind to start it, because I know what's going to happen. But you're right, it's beautifully written.
And this is the question that I've really wanted to ask you. Eurovision country, you secretly always go for.
Laura
I actually don't I don't have one, not even Australia who is in the contest. So, I pick the best song every year, so that's the country I go for. So, every year it's different. This year my pick for the win is Finland. So, Eurovision is in May, so you heard it here first.
Patty
2026. Finland
Laura
2026 is Finland. We might see we might see you in Helsinki next year.
Patty
Laura not you are delightful. Thank you so much for coming.
Laura
Thank you, Patty, you're delightful yourself.
Patty
And thank you. Folks, if this resonated with you, please assist us by liking subscribing, but especially leaving us a five star review because that's what makes sure that we get into the right listening ears. Till next time.
Jonathan
Everything that MHCN does is guided by the lived experience of people with mental health concerns, and the families and carers who support their recovery. We're very grateful for their contribution to this podcast. To support, or find out more about MHCN, you can donate, join our free advocacy network and subscribe to our newsletter. All those links are in the show notes below.